2. 1. Dadl ar Araith y Frenhines

Part of the debate – Senedd Cymru am 2:30 pm ar 6 Gorffennaf 2016.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Alun Cairns Alun Cairns The Secretary of State for Wales 2:30, 6 Gorffennaf 2016

Wel, diolch, Fadam Lywydd. Bu’n bleser cael gwrando yn astud iawn ar y ddadl.

It’s a pleasure to have listened to, I think, what has been a respectful and interesting debate. I didn’t realise that I was the first that hadn’t been heckled, as was highlighted by the First Minister. But, as I look around, I think I know most people pretty well—I don’t know absolutely everyone, but I hope that that sets the tone for a mature relationship that the UK Government can have, through the Wales Office, and the Welsh Government, and the Assembly, in turn. And I’m determined to continue that as a dialogue, so, many of the points that have been raised I’d like to continue in that spirit.

I think, out of the issues that have been raised, there have been some common themes, and I’m grateful to all of those Members who have spoken. I haven’t got the opportunity to go through, within the limited time that’s available, all of the points made by all of the Members. But, if I can just highlight a couple of points that have been raised.

The first is in relation to Europe. I think there are naturally some questions, some concerns, about the direction of policy. Some people raised surprise that I said that article 50 wouldn’t be invoked for at least two years. Well, it’s quite clear that there won’t be a new Prime Minister in place until 9 September. Now, that is some months after the Brexit referendum. It’s obvious that the new Prime Minister won’t exercise article 50 immediately at that period, because they—he or she—will want to take stock and consider the implications, and discuss with the devolved administrations and with Members of Parliament, of all political persuasion, in terms of the approach that they would like to see. So, therefore, that demonstrates that several months will pass from the Brexit referendum until article 50 is invoked.

And I say this positively. Because, if there is a different view that lies within the Assembly—clearly, Neil Hamilton said the sooner the better, and I think maybe the First Minister might have said something similar last week, that he wanted article 50 invoked sooner rather than later. Well, if that is the view of the Assembly, I think it would be helpful if the Assembly took a formal position, so that that could inform the European Unit, and the new Prime Minister, in terms of where it goes.

For me, personally, I believe that an element of stability, an element of negotiation with individual European nations, in order to strengthen our position, in order to get to a position whereby we have strong relationships, where we clearly understand the intentions and the will of allies around Europe, is a sensible way forward. And we can use the interim period in order to put the United Kingdom, Wales, and all of the constituent parts of the United Kingdom, in a strong position in order to embark on those negotiations. Because, come what may, unless all 27 of the member states of the European Union agree, when article 50 is invoked, then the two-year clock will start ticking. I think that it would be a sensible position in order to understand Assembly Members’ views on that. It’s not for me to tell you what to do, but I think that that would be helpful in terms of inputting whether you would like article 50 invoked immediately, or whether you think that a delay would be more sensible.

The other theme, within the time limit that remains, is the Wales Bill. Much attention has rightly been given to the fiscal framework—I prefer to call it ‘Barnett adjustment’. Because, absolutely, the only model that we’ve got that existed in relation to this sort of situation is as the Scotland Act passed last year. The Scottish Parliament, naturally, wouldn’t pass a legislative consent motion until there was satisfaction over the fiscal framework. I think that that is a natural place. I mean, I’ve said clearly to the First Minister that that’s the position I would expect the Assembly to take. So, I would hope that the introduction of the funding floor would give confidence.

Reference has been made to Gerry Holtham’s report and the funding floor of 115 per cent minimum, and the spending level is above that as it stands. The funding floor of 115 per cent as a minimum has been introduced and, again, it received Gerry Holtham’s support, as well as much support in the wider community. He has also published some models for which a Barnett adjustment could be used, and that again is a helpful position in which to get to. So, it is in that spirit that I want to continue this discussion, which will be developed in parallel with the Bill.

There are lots of other points that I wanted to cover, but, unfortunately, I haven’t. But in terms of the financial consequentials that come to this place, I just really do want to underline that HS2 consequentials absolutely came, and that is accepted by Members of Parliament in Plaid Cymru. Because the HS2 consequentials led to the 16 per cent increase in capital spending, because it was a consequential out of the Department for Transport budget. So, I really wanted to underline that.

And, finally, if I can respond to the questions about attending the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee here at the Assembly, I thought the Chairman and I, through informal discussion, had come to an arrangement, so I was somewhat surprised and disappointed to see the criticism that had been aired in the media and press thereafter. I’m happy to continue a discussion in order to come to a situation that works for both of us, and I would hope that that will be accepted in the spirit in which it’s intended. Thank you.