Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Welsh Government's 'NHS Wales Induction Guide for Independent Board Members' includes:

'The aim is to have a single set of values which guide how we work, change culture and shape the way we behave. Living these values means being autonomous yet accountable, being both brave and bold and creating a culture that is open and transparent...

'Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest.

'The role of the Board is to...hold the Chief Executive and senior management team to account through purposeful challenge and scrutiny'.

And,

'Board members do not instruct the Chief Executive or any member of staff on operational matters but can challenge and question'.

In this context, what advice as Counsel General did you give to the health Minister before she forced the independent members of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to resign?

Can I just say that the decisions that are taken by the health Minister in respect of her functions as a Minister are properly addressed to that Minister and not to myself?

Well, what advice would you now give to the health Minister, in the context of the statement I've received on behalf of all the former independent members of the health board—respected people in north Wales—stating,

'We believe she is setting healthcare in north Wales back a decade'.

And including,

'Each CEO has told us that they have found the executive team unmanageable, made worse by ineffective workforce HR support. We therefore sought the advice of Welsh Government officials. On each occasion, as with all matters relating to the executive team, we are required to have explicit Welsh Government support and approval. Some well-intentioned executives have been tarnished and undermined by the behaviours of their colleagues, such that the team itself became dysfunctional and ineffective as a group. The Minister says that she delegates the running of the health board to the independent members. This is inaccurate. Welsh Government and the executive team run the health board, with the board an afterthought at times. And through her actions, the Minister has wiped the memory of the organisation. Those who battled to see the organisation learn from past failings have been replaced. Good staff are leaving, and those who remain are struggling to get even basic decisions made—

I'm going to have to remind you that these are questions to the Counsel General and the Minister for the Constitution. I'm struggling with where you're going with this particular question, so, if you can bring it to the question. 

I strongly contend that these are matters that fall within the brief—

No, no. I just need to hear your question, basically, is what I was saying there, and I couldn't see where you were going with it. 

And I'd therefore be grateful if the Counsel General could answer the question I put at the beginning: what advice would he now give to the health Minister in the context of this worrying statement?

Well, the health Minister yesterday responded to similar questions that were put. She explained the decisions that have been taken, and the basis on which those decisions were taken. Those are a matter for the health Minister, and should be properly addressed to the health Minister. 

Well, I'd suggest it goes a little bit further than that. And this, I have to say, reeks of an unethical Government, with the Minister following her predecessors in seeking to silence the truth tellers and bury accountability. 

However, moving on, the Windsor framework, agreed by the Prime Minister and European Commission President, replaces the old Northern Ireland protocol, providing a new legal and UK constitutional framework. It delivers free-flowing trade in goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland by removing any sense of a border in the Irish Sea for goods staying within the UK. These goods will travel as normal through a new green lane, without red tape or unnecessary checks, with the only checks remaining designed to prevent smuggling or crime. And to give businesses and individuals the time to prepare, the implementation of the agreement will be phased in, with some of the arrangements for goods, agri-food, pets and plants movements introduced later this year, and the remainder in 2024. 

These regulations insert a new schedule into the Northern Ireland Act 1998, which implements those aspects of the Windsor framework relating to the involvement of the institutions of the 1998 agreement, and all parties represented here in the Senedd supported the framework in Westminster. 

Given your responsibility for the co-ordination of work on the common frameworks, and the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 within the Welsh Government, what advice have you given Cabinet colleagues to prepare their departments for these changes?

Well, the biggest concern that we have in terms of the issue on frameworks is not actually to do with the Windsor agreement. The Windsor agreement is something that, I think, as a Government, we welcome. We wait to see precisely how it will operate, but anything that facilitates the economic links, the economic trade, and also the re-establishment of the Northern Ireland Government is really important to us. 

In terms of the frameworks, the biggest challenge to the frameworks is not in terms of the Windsor agreement, it is in terms of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, and also the retained EU law Bill. It is the retained EU law Bill that still has very significant implications, both for Northern Ireland, for Wales, and for the rest of the United Kingdom. That is where my focus will be over the course of the coming weeks, and, of course, I made a statement on that yesterday during the legislative consent motion discussion, and will, of course, bring forward further statements in due course. 

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, we in Plaid Cymru have welcomed the Windsor framework as a basis on which to re-establish power sharing in Northern Ireland. We're also clear that it raises a number of questions for Wales, to which we have not yet had satisfactory answers. As we have discussed in this Chamber, it raises particular questions about the regulation of the flow of trade through Wales's Ireland-facing ports. In response to a question posed by one of my party colleagues in the House of Commons, the UK Government has suggested that the new green lane created under the framework will apply to goods transiting to Northern Ireland via Holyhead and Dublin. I remain unclear as to how this might be made possible, what new regulatory obligations might flow from it and how it would interact with the new free-port status granted to ports in both Pembrokeshire and Ynys Môn. Can I ask what assessment the Welsh Government has made of the Windsor framework's impact on Wales? And, specifically, what conversations have been had with UK Government counterparts about the framework's implications for market access via Welsh ports? Diolch.  

Can I say that most of the discussions that are taking place in respect of those trade aspects are discussions that have taken place with the Minister for Economy? Of course, I have an overall interest in terms of the operation of the frameworks. At the moment, it's still too early to be precise or to be clear how they will work. It is something that is under review. There may well be issues that are of concern that need to be sorted. Those do remain predominantly within the ambit of portfolio responsibility of the Minister for Economy. If there are specific legal matters, no doubt the Minister will engage with me on those.

I suppose the best thing I can say is, of course, the point I made in the last point, which is that one of the biggest concerns we have arising out of this still remains the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, and the extent to which that may undermine or override the frameworks, and that, in conjunction with the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, we don't know what those consequences would be. So it is still a sort of moving feast at the moment, but, of course, it's something that is of high priority, it is something we're paying very close attention to, and we'll bring further statements in due course to this Senedd, as we know more and understand more about the processes. 

Thank you, Minister. The issue of trade regulation is one on which we need urgent clarity. Another issue for Wales, raised by the Windsor framework, is that of the democratic deficit. Last week, the framework's Stormont brake was approved by the House of Commons. It provides for what could become, essentially, a unanimous veto on certain kinds of regulatory change in Northern Ireland. While the UK Government has arguably now overcorrected for any democratic deficit in Northern Ireland resulting from the Northern Ireland protocol, it has shown no concern at all for any such deficit in Wales, where there is no protected role for the Welsh Government in the governance of the protocol. This is despite the impact that it has had in Wales, including the trade through our ports. The Windsor framework does nothing to address this.

Further, what is Wales's inability to prevent the kinds of post-Brexit changes to its regulatory regime that are liable to flow from the retained EU law Bill and that have already stemmed from the internal market Act if not a democratic deficit? Does the Minister agree with me that we need a Senedd brake on the new EU regulations, including to protect Welsh access to European markets, and, if so, will he outline what steps the Welsh Government is taking to secure one?

Thank you for that. We are meant to have some sort of Senedd brake in terms of the Sewel convention, but it's not a very effective brake and it doesn't have any judicable status. I'm afraid I can probably only really take the questions you raised by, to some extent, just enlarging on some of the points I made earlier. That is, at the moment, we're still trying to have to assess how this would work, what the implications are for the common frameworks and the implication of the retained EU law Bill.

You're right that the engagement has not been good on this. I know there is further engagement, and I know that the Ministers do engage with their counterparts now on these issues at every opportunity that arises. All I can really say that is helpful is that the situation is under very, very close review, and further statements will be brought forward as we understand better what is happening and how these will work. And I think that applies to everyone who's participating within it, and, of course, we wait to see what will happen in terms of the DUP's position with regard to that and what may then happen in terms of whether or not there's going to be the re-establishment in Northern Ireland of the devolved Government.